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Last update January 12, 1996 1st NASA M&P Video Teleconference


                    2 December 1993


HQ        D. Mullvile,
          R. Weinstein,
Vitro     T. Lynch 
          W. Welch

ARC       D. Dittman
GSFC      F. Gross

JPL       Y. Bar-Cohen
          T. O'Donnell

JSC       L. Leger

KSC       K. Nguyen
          C. Bryan

LaRC      S. Thibeault

LeRC      J. Reagan
          J. Rusick

MSFC      D. Griffin

SSC       W. St. Cyr 
          L. deQuay

                            December 2, 1993

The meeting was opened with a welcome statement from T. O'Donnell followed by R. Weinstein and 
D. Mulville who greeted the Working Group and restated NASA HQ support of the activity and 
the satisfaction of the progress.  Most of the discussion involved around the agenda that was 
circulated in advance.  The following topics were covered:

A draft Charter for a NASA M&P Standards Working Group was debated.  A summary of
comments follows:

D. Griffin suggested a stronger emphasis on NASA-wide standards and J. Reagan reiterated
the need for a strong statement on cost effective standards and requirements.  L. Leger agreed
on the need for common standards as well as the need for a statement about cost effective
policy.  However, D. Griffin wanted to see HQ more involved as a referee.  R. Weinstein
proposed to leaving the statement about NASA-wide standards as was drafted.  He stated that
the HQ prefers to see the center personnel chair the panels, while NASA HQ retaining
oversight responsibility, stay as a facilitator, serve as document release referee and decision
maker.  D. Griffin agreed with the HQ position but suggested that in forming NASA-wide
specifications a process should be established that should be able to handle cases where more
than one center have a document covering the same issue.  As an example he referred to the
KSC cleaning spec LOX 123 and that the fact that there is a relevant MSFC spec too.  T.
O'Donnell reminded the participants of the availability of a draft copy (NAS) KSC-STD-123.

D. Mulville stated that other activity areas should be done by center consensus and HQ will
remain involved as a facilitator.  L. Leger mentioned the difficulties to obtain common Space
Station Specs with regards to the implementation at the contractor level and the fact that the
vendor is left with a freedom to implement the detailed process.  L. Leger suggested a similar
approach for the NASA wide standards.  D. Griffin agreed that when it is a contractors
responsibility the contractors process is implemented.

To assist in forming a process of NASA-Wide M&P Standards development, review, approval
and implementation, T. O'Donnell suggested the documentation of a flow chart for the
proposed process.  L. Leger stated that the complexity of the different processes will need to
be accounted for in the organization of the flow chart .  

With regards to other related issues, W. St. Cyr asked to have also a focus on ground support
hardware not only space.  J. Reagan expressed a concern with regards to the broad nature of
ground support hardware and L. Leger suggested that ground support equipment for space
hardware should be included.  S. Thibeault asked to add a statement about technology transfer
to the charter because of its growing importance and its political implication. In this regard, R.
Weinstein mention that NASA would like to transfer mature specs to societies.  L. Leger
suggested that R. Weinstein will be the coordinator with Societies but expressed a concern
with regards to the involvement of technical societies.  He expressed the concern of having the
Working Group charter too broad and may dilute the focus.  T. O'Donnell responded that
outreach for documentation transfer is by definition Technology Transfer.   S. Thibeault
commented that the current environment encourages involvement in Technology Transfer and
that the group should make a statement to let the world know that we are responsive to the
national needs.  T. O'Donnell agreed and F. Gross from GSFC asked to add "spin off to M&P
organizations".  S. Thibeault and other interested participants will draft additional charter
wording in this area. Y. Bar-Cohen mentioned the DoD trend to transfer maturing
specifications to technical societies and suggested that the working group should be prepared to
operate in the same fashion.

L. Leger suggested that T. O'Donnell be elected by the Working Group as the Chair for the
activity and that L. Leger as the host of the next meeting will be nominated as the co-chair.
The participants agreed with these elections.

The date for the 2nd NASA M&P Standards Meeting was set from April 5 to 7.  Due to
concern over travel budget it was also agreed to consider an alternative Video Teleconference. 

The following were topics that had a wide agreement that presentation should be solicited for
the 2nd NASA M&P Standards Meeting.

Composites - JPL, LaRC, ASTM and/or JANNAF will make presentations on the topic

NMI 8077 - R. Weinstein will circulate current draft.  Detailed technical issues were extracted
and were left to other documents.

"Listing and discussion of M&P Organizational Responsibility" - D. Dittman, ARC, and others, TBD.

M&P failure problems and issues - D. Griffin will cover the Failure Analysis Database at MSFC.

ISO-9000 - J. Reagan (Discuss replacing 9858)

8060.1C review and implementation issues.

CFC Replacement - D. Griffin and C. Bryan

Welding Specs (KSC and MSFC each has 4 specs)

Material Outgassing - ASTM

Polymeric Shelf Life Control System - Hughes 

Multiple Specifications for same materials, e.g., RTV 566 - T. O'Donnell

Russian activity - D. Griffin, MSFC, and M. Pedley, JSC 

Issues with definition and dealing with "critical processes" - JSC/GSFC/MSFC

Information Handling System (IHS) product discussion 

D. Bowles/S. Thibeault  could talk about society involvement

1.    NDE standards and specifications would be under the responsibility of the NASA NDE
      Working Group and Y. Bar-Cohen will be the liaison for common issues.

2.    The Charter was adequately covered in the Telecon, except for the technology transfer issue.

3.    If there are any questions or need for revision please bring them to the attention of Y. Bar-
      Cohen or T. O'Donnell please call at (818)354-2610, (818)354-5645 or fax to (818)393-

For more information you can contact: Yoseph Bar-Cohen, Cheng Hsieh or Tim O'Donnell Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), M.S. 125-112, 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109-8099 Phone: 818-354-2610 Fax: 818-393-5011 E-Mail: