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Last update January 12, 1996


3.1.4.2 2nd NASA M&P Video Teleconference

Minutes

                    9 January 1995


PARTICIPATED

HQ	Richard Weinstein
ARC	Dan Dittman
JPL	Tim O'Donnell and Yoseph Bar-Cohen
JSC 	Mike Pedley and Lubert Leger
SSC 	William St. Cyr
GSFC	Roamer Predmore, Petar Arsenovic
KSC 	Coleman Bryan, Scott Murray and Peter Welch
LeRC	Steve Pepper, Bob Fusaro, John Reagan and Bill Jones
MSFC	Dennis Griffin, Ann Whitaker, Ron Mize, William Baker and George Leath
LaRC	Sheila Thibeault


						MINUTES

NASA M&P STDs Program - R. Weinstein briefly reviewed the recent reorganization at NASA HQ and mentioned that
responsibility for the NASA M&P Standards activity is now moved from Code Q to the Office of the Chief Engineer,
Code AE, although Code Q will still process the release of funds.

3rd  NASA M&P Standards Meeting - T. O'Donnell reviewed the objectives and draft of the Agenda for the 3rd NASA 
M&P meeting and reminded everyone to send to JPL any suggested alternatives or addition for the Agenda.  As in the 
past, we will have in the first Session a presentation from all NASA Centers.  Session 2 will include presentations 
from voluntary standards organizations, DoD, industry and suppliers. Regarding the Agenda, JPL has contacted the Air 
Force, Aerospace Corp., McDonnell Douglas Corp., SAE and ASTM.   Because the current ASTM contact represents one 
specialized area, R. Weinstein offered to identify a contact with a broad overview.   C. Bryan said that the issue 
of Oxygen Compatibility is covered very well by ASTM.  With regard to the  issue of non-CFC cleaners and a non-NASA 
presenter, O'Donnell said that we are considering a person from Martin Marietta, Denver.  Regarding whether a NASA 
person should present work on non-CFC M. Pedley suggested that he prefers to hear a non-NASA viewpoint.   R. Fusaro 
asked to consider including a talk about mechanical components issues particularly with regards to space qualified 
materials and lubricants.  O'Donnell responded that if there is a specific input we can take it into consideration 
for the agenda. 

In Session 3, the five current NASA-wide standards projects will be covered.  Welding was split into ground and 
space and we included a presentation on composite standards, non-CFC cleaning and the planned NASA material database 
survey efforts.  L. Leger initially expressed a concern about having this session open to technical societies  if the 
NASA Centers will be airing unresolved differences. It was pointed out that review of current projects should be 
relatively complete by the 3rd M&P Meeting.  The discussion ended with a general agreement to leave this Session 
open to Non-NASA participants.  

In Session 4, efforts will be made to agree on the next NASA M&P Standards candidates.  A pilot effort with 
voluntary standard societies will be considered. Pedley expressed interest in a presentation from Weinstein on NASA 
involvement in ISO and Weinstein promised to include it in his presentation in Session 1.

NASA TECHNICAL STDS STATUS - T. O'Donnell, S. Murray, C. Bryan and D. Griffin covered the status of the five specs 
that are currently in development.  The JPL coordinated NASA epoxy spec is in the mail.  It includes input from 3M, 
MSFC, and industrial users and will be on the Mosaic Homepage towards the end of  January  The Low Outgassing Silicone 
spec is half complete and it includes input from Dow and GE.  It is expected to be complete a week or two before the 
3rd NASA M&P Standards Meeting.  M. Pedley asked about inclusion of data from a Rockwell material spec and  promised 
to send a copy to JPL.   Leger asked if this is for in-house activity or for contractors.  O'Donnell answered that 
the intent is for NASA in-house use but it can be used by contractors.  Leger stated that this material spec should 
not be mandatory and industry should be free to use their own.  The approach to material qualification proposed in 
the epoxy spec is to rely significantly on the manufacturers certification of conformance and test data documentation.  
To realize cost  savings, procuring agencies should only perform minimal acceptance testing, if any.  The spec 
document will provide typical material properties.  Leger asked "how do you deal with Qualified Sources?".  
O'Donnell answered that qualified sources are planned to be listed.  Weinstein suggested that these specs will be 
used internally first and then could be offered to societies.

S. Murray said that he is working on the ground based welding spec and expects to have it ready by the March deadline.  
W. St Cyr will have an input for the draft of the welding Spec.  Murray asked to receive comments prior to April and 
that he would like to have interactive discussion on it.  D. Griffin will coordinate the space welding spec with 
C. Russell.  Griffin also suggested that Murray coordinate his efforts with Russell and that he hopes to have the 
space welding spec by 1/16/95 and to send copies to the Spec. development team.  J. Bennet, Pedley will provide the 
JSC input.  Regarding MSFC-STD-522, the latest version is on the Mosaic Homepage and it is ready to be distributed 
as a draft NASA-Wide Standard even though there are some plans to update the document.  Griffin is soliciting 
comments and O'Donnell confirmed that we made minor changes to make it conform to the format for a NASA wide standard.  
JPL will send copies to everyone within a week.  Bryan wants to see this spec address the KSC marine environment 
issues.  R. Predmore had a question regarding thin materials below 1/4 inch and suggested to have the spec deal 
with this topic.   Griffin felt that non-NASA participation can help here a great deal.    

SEAL CONFIGURATION TESTER DEVICE - W. St. Cyr reviewed his joint work with ASTM on the Seal Configuration tester 
and he showed a video covering his work .  A test facility was established to measure the wear characteristics of 
seals and performance in oxygen and nitrogen.  He expects to have a draft spec in about 3 month. Griffin wondered 
if it is intended for a NASA spec.  Pedley thought that this should be an ASTM spec rather than put into NHB-8060.1.  
Bryan commented that SSC efforts are valuable because they are establishing quantitative evaluation  criteria.   
However, Pedley was not sure what the number really means.  Further discussion may be appropriate at the 3rd NASA 
M&P Standards Meeting. 

MATERIALS DATABASE ASSESSMENT EFFORT - A. Whitaker covered this presentation representing F. Key.  She mentioned 
that a kick-off meeting is planned in February and in the meantime she sent a questionnaire to all of the Centers.  
So far only ARC responded.  Pedley wondered if the database information will be made accessible through the Homepage 
system and Whitaker said that this is one direction being considered.

LUBRICATED SPACE SYSTEM REQUALIFICATION FOR ODC FREE CLEANING PROCESSES - S. Pepper, LeRC, made the primary 
presentation.  He reported on a proposal that was submitted to Code Q and approved to work on the effect of CFC 
free cleaning on space lubricants.  The goal is to assess the effect of differences in surface chemistry through 
an accelerated lubricant life test.  Predmore claimed that little work was done so far to qualify lubricants used 
with new cleaners.  There is a little effort to stockpile Freon before the phase out.  The problem is critical 
because  replacement cleaners do appear to be introducing new problems and we will have to face these problems. 
A meeting on the topic was held this year in Denver and the Proceedings are currently being prepared.  O'Donnell 
reminded that this topic will be discussed at the meeting.

PRIORITIZATION AND PROCESSES (SAE, ETC.) FOR DEVELOPMENT OF M&P STANDARDS - O'Donnell showed a statement from OMB 
Circular A-119 that strongly urges the transfer of government specs to societies.  He also gave a brief status of 
the JPL interaction with SAE.  According to S. Klavon from SAE, the cost of similar spec development efforts with 
the Air Force was about $385K for 80 documents.  Bryan questioned whether we should use SAE or ASTM, which is free.   
Weinstein responded that there are costs if  the relevant document must be modified.  ASTM is a viable option per 
some participants.  Bryan could be the lead person for such an effort.  Weinstein wants to see more proposals for 
both internal NASA development and outside.  Fusaro wondered if DoD is involved.  Weinstein and O'Donnell confirmed 
that the DoD trend is in the direction of transferring the responsibility to the technical societies.

INTERCENTER AGREEMENT - T. O'Donnell reviewed the status of the proposed NASA Intercenter Agreement that was issued 
by Joe Wonsever.  Given the existing agreements among  various Centers, the consensus was that we donít need this 
effort.  An alternative could be the formation of a standardized agreement which could serve as a reference guide 
based on existing documents.  O'Donnell promised to continue the dialogue regarding the establishment of an 
alternate document framework.  Weinstein  acknowledged his understanding of the objections and promised to talk 
to Wonsever.

SUMMARY - The NHB-7120.5 document is being completed this week and Weinstein will fax the slightly revised 
chapter on M&P to all Centers.   Pedley asked if the text of 7120 still required identification of critical 
processes.  Weinstein indicated it is not in the materials section but may be in the safety section.  A request 
was made of Weinstein to send the safety related Section of 7120.5 to the M&P Working Group.  Weinstein deferred 
this request back to the respective Centers Safety representatives.  

Weinstein requested that O'Donnell's presentation material be distributed to all centers and O'Donnell agreed.


For more information you can contact: Yoseph Bar-Cohen, Cheng Hsieh or Tim O'Donnell Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), M.S. 125-112, 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109-8099 Phone: 818-354-2610 Fax: 818-393-5011 E-Mail: yosi@jpl.nasa.gov